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Post Info TOPIC: Original radiators


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Original radiators


Hi

I have been told - I think - that the original radiators used in the Phase 2 Peerless were from a Standard 10? Clearly the header tank was .... modified... Can anyone confirm/deny this...? I have contacted the Standard 10 parts supply and they have lots of radiators suitable for restoration for £25 + shipping.

thanks

Clive



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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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"From a standard 10" is probably a bit of over simplification.

It looks like the design is based on a Standard 10 lower panel with a custom
top and filler neck.  I don't think that anybody cut and shut old Standard
radiators, they were probably produced like this.

However, if you use an original pattern one you will find that it cracks at the
base of the filler neck.  This seems to be due to vibration, and the fact that the
filler neck is just where you would put your hand when leaning under the bonnet.I found that I was taking the Rad out for re-soldering anually, so in the five years that
I ran the car that adds up to three professional rebuilds and two amateur
resoldering jobs.  I've seen similar problems on other cars.  Unless you really must
have an original, life's too short for that.

Alternatives?

Gary Stretton had an aluminium one made, although whether that withstands the
vibration and better is not certain.

This time round, I've used a Land Rover discovery Rad in the Warwick.  It costs less than
any one of the "major repairs", it's ali, and it has a built in oil cooler.  Ian Mcdonald uses
one in the racing Warwick so it's easily up to the job.

And I'd guess that modifying 50 year old secondhand radiations is probably not a good
strategy for reliability.

Good luck!

Frank



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Totally agree with Frank, if you intend to use and abuse the car (as they should be in my opinion) the original wont hold up. I have the same sad story to tell as Frank, waste of money/time.

I had a great little workshop near me that used to build anything you wanted, (sadly no more) and they built me this triple, high efficiency core with basic of the shelf tanks top an bottom that would fit the space...to the max.

One day I might get someone to make me a top tank to resemble the original but I have to say, It aint at the top of my list!

 

Peerless GT underbonnet shot (Small).JPG

 

 



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Thanks Frank, thanks Nigel

I am left in a quandary - which is entirely of my own making. I come from an earlier era of cars, Vintage and Post war - where rad originality is important because they were a promanent feature of the engine bay. Even then the cores were upgraded, and a Kenlow fitted to cope with city traffic on a hot day. So my heart pulls me toward originality, while my head tells me I am an idiot and should listen to those that know. I have photos of one Peerless rad on a US racer that has a polished brass header tank - talk about playing to my older car soft spot, beautiful... Mind you an oil cooler - with a rad - gosh that is tempting. What to do, what to do...

I think I will postpone the decision, by getting a bottom tank for a few quid from a Standard and a quote for a (strengthened) brass header tank from a friend who lives in the wilds of Perthshire and then compare. At least with a rad from a Disco I am not going to find the supply runs out - do you know what model Disco Frank, I assume they changed a fair bit over the long production run?

Many thanks, this is a brillient forum.

Clive



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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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Hi Clive

I know we've been conversing off site and I said I'd send you some pics of mine. Given that the concensus of opinion is that the rads are unique to Peerless, I'd happily lend you my original pattern one which your friend could copy if you prefer to down the 'originality' route. The liklihood is that I'll use the Disco one but would like to keep the original just in case I change my mind.

Mike

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Thanks Mike

yes my mind is very undecided - but it is nice to have options rather than a dead-end! I do like the polished brass header tank, quirky, and quirky originality is good. Tough decision.

Cheers

Clive



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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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Hello Clive,

I don't have my photos to hand but can strongly advise using a top hose arrangement that allows the hose to flex when the engine moves under acceleration and so forth. A concertina type hose will allow this, as will Nigel's solution with the angles.

I have an original rad in storage so can take photos, provide dimensions if needed. It was reconditioned with a new core and came with my car when bought from Alan House.

The lovely alloy radiator from Forge Motorsport in Gloucester is an improved design by them that looks very original and is based on my recon rad. Fitted with a super efficient modern core it has to be an improvement on the Standard core. As yet untested, I can't report on it, but their reputation is solid and their workmanship excellent. Pics available if you need them.

All the best,
Gary


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Rust Never Sleeps - Cavity Wax and Valium Should Do It


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Thanks Gary
All information and photos much appreciated. Not only does it help my quandary but it is great material for the site - which is a really excellent resource.
I am guessing a bespoke alloy rad is in excess of £400?
I assume everyone also fits a kenlow?
A lot of cars drop the mechanical fan and rely on the electric only, it gives a few extra bhp (4 on a Healey) though I am always a bit twitchy completely relying on an electrical fan...
Cheers
Clive

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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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Hello Clive,

This footage of a Revotec fitted to my car might be of use and it shows my alloy rad, too. 

https://youtu.be/ir0gzFQM9TY



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Rust Never Sleeps - Cavity Wax and Valium Should Do It


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The peerless rad top is brass. 
Brass will go hard (work hardening) and crack with vibration.  Yes you can anneal it to get the temper
back, but once it's cracked, it's cracked.  Soldering to repair a crack is possible, as long as it isn't corroded.
but solder has hardly any structural strength and will give up very quickly if the joint isn't reinforced.


Land Rover Discovery Diesel:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-200TDI-NEW-RADIATOR-ASSEMBLY-BTP1823-1989-1994/121731772874?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D8085fabd5b1d4c538f7962ed5aaaa315%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D261897033922

Is the £87.95 a convincing enough argument? 

That's about half of what a professional refurbishment of an original will cost, or about
the same of the annual radiator repair costs on a running car.

Attached is a pic of one in the front of my Warwick. 
It's mounted upside down to get the oil cooler pipes to match the engine.
It will need a separate filler, but these engines really need a header tank
anyway, and the filler can live there.

Ian Mcdonald has one of these in the racing Warwick, so it's well up to the job.

Frank from Felixstowe.

 

 

 



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hate to stomp about on this thread but....does the disco rad fit a Peerless? I thought there was more height in the Warwick as it originally used the TR Rad?? ooh watch me get shot down in flames............



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OK:

21.5 Inches wide and 17 inches (+ the retailing pegs) high in old money.
The retaining pegs normally go into a rubber socket but have enough
meat to take a thread for a retaining nut.

There's about two inches clear under the bonnet, so I'm going to
make a dummy top, and take the demister input from there.

Another Pic?

Frank



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Very intersting, very interesting indeed - and very much appreciated.

So in summary - there is a company that makes what looks like a stunning repro alloy rad ... (cost approx...?)

Or there is a 300 Series Disco rad that can be adapted to suit - a far cheaper option.

Or one could go to original brass style header, but would need a modified design to cope with vibration.

Also - is is quite comon to shed the mechanical fan and fit only an electric.

I have fitted many electric's myself, usually on suck, as a supplement to the mechanical rather than as a replacement. 2 reasons for this, one is I have had one fan and two thermostat controls (all Kenlow) fail on me on big rallies. Ok the Kenlow fan was 8 years old, but it is not as if they have every day use... If I hadn't had the mechanical fan in place it could have been very expensive. The other reason is a supplement fan can be smaller than a replacement fan, and so doesn't draw so much power from the old dynamo - particularly as it is in heavy/slow traffic you need to use it.

I have always actually strapped the fans through the core of the radiators (not nearly as nice looking as that bracket that looks really good) - covered literally 10 of 1000s of miles - gravel roads, forest trails and even grilled a sheep and pushed the fan in - and yet never had a leak from the rad from this form of attachment. But it could be the style of a 1940s rad is stronger than a 50s rad...?

Many thanks again

Clive

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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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Clive,

The aluminum radiator I used is stunningly expensive. I had to pay for their shop time as to make the CAD files. It is available from Ron Davis Radiators. Call them late in the day after you have had a drink, or start drinking early.  If you buy one you may not be able to afford a second drink.

www.rondavisradiators.com/Radiators.htm

I also put together a shroud, but I haven't tried it yet. Dave C said that his car ran hotter with the shroud then without. I may have to put a few flapper holes in the side to ensure I get good airflow at speed.

You can see a few photos here: www.vintagemotoring.net/forum/viewtopic.php

and on the next page.
Dean



-- Edited by Dean on Wednesday 9th of September 2015 10:10:06 PM

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59' Peerless #213, 61' Warwick GT, 60' Healey BN7, 70' Lotus Europa, 88' M5...



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Great solution Frank. Very tidy and easily replaced should the unfortunate happen. Are the hoses from a marine specilaist?

All the best,

Gary



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Rust Never Sleeps - Cavity Wax and Valium Should Do It


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Thanks Dean

I will download and archive the links and photos! I find web links tend to be only good for a year or two, and I definately want excellent material like those photos in my archive long term.

Stunningly expensive eh? Hmm, if more than £700 then it would be cheaper for me to go to my bespoke manufacturer, and a lot chepaer to go Disco! (I need 2 as I am building up the bits to restore 2 complete cars, sometimes that gets me a discount, more often that just gets expensive...)

Cheers & thanks

Clive

 



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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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Just checked mine and its 23" X 16" and that's dam fine close to the bonnet and sitting on the bottom chassis cross member.



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I have the same radiator that Dean does, being able to take advantage of the investment he already made in having the CADs made up. Even then it was $1200 plus shipping. However it is a beautiful thing to behold and with puller electric fan keeps everything cool, even in the Southern California heat.


dave

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Dave GT2 #118


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Wow, that is stunningly expensive! I remember driving East to West in the US we used 'water wetter' which helped even in July in death valley. A new Dodge packed up, but the old car I was in was fine, a good product.
Cheers
Clive


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Healey, Peerless & Fairthorpe


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as an aside, if I had to do the rad thing again, i'd go for a thin wide  Xflow panel and a header tank. I ran a Scimitar with a V8  and the current trend was to 'upgrade the 3 row block with a 4 row.   bad move.   i  used the rad from the BMC front drive series cars 1100, 1300 , 2200 princess , which was 31" wide and 11" tall    has 3 fan mountings,  can use 2 at once, which i did  and is only a 2 row block. 

The  theory is that the slower the water goes thru the rad the cooler it gets,  the faster , ie: more tubes ,  the less heat it loses. , so  worth some research for a thin panel   ie: aluminum  single row,  possible double,  and the fan too. check the wreckers yards. 

;



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Hi! Thanks, guys! Your post is truly helpful! The think that appreciate this wonderful platform! Hopefully, you will look through 15 school items that distract you from studying and find out what's the greatest thing that distracts you from studying! 

 



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