The Peerless & Warwick Discussion Forum

mikerf · Status: Offline

Break out the spray gun

Gary S · Status: Offline

Well done Mike. No small feat getting so far. Id keep on sorting the imperfections because the more you find now, the fewer will reappear in time through your lush new paint. Is your paint girl (edited to reflect the correct gender of the paint person) familiar with GRP? Most will just keep on filling with standard fillers and not GRP paste on the larger areas. But you know that already.

-- Edited by Gary S on Wednesday 4th of August 2021 11:24:00 AM

mikerf · Status: Offline

Paint girl, Gary! Yes, she is, inasmuch as she's done a lot of various motorbike composites. She's also done a few classics albeit metal but she's mentally fastidious. I know you got a new body too, can I ask if yours had areas of filler on each front wing near the headlights? Rachel (Paint Girl) is suggesting Bar Coat. I've used that myself on a body kit for my son's chaved up Colt when he first started driving as the various parts were a combination of GRP & filler. Worked well from what I can remember.

Erik V · Status: Offline

Nice and exciting!!

What color is it going to be?

(or is that a secret)

Gary S · Status: Offline

Thanks Mike, my post edited and corrected. The whole new body skin of my customers car needed much in terms of skim filler, which is inevitable when the mould was taken from an original body without any laborious rectification work undertaken to smooth it out. The headlamp areas are too large for the headlamp rims we have so they are not being fitted. Another batch in the future with greater tolerances might allow this. The rear wings needed work too. Paint girl should know what is compatible with the filler shes using so trust her judgement. Its her error to correct My paint man didnt use a barrier coat for the system he used as the primer was compatible. Ask for filler primer and rubbing down between coats as this is more stable than mere filler on top. Filler should be kept to a minimum but it must be expected, too.

-- Edited by Gary S on Wednesday 4th of August 2021 11:34:02 AM

mikerf · Status: Offline

California Sage Green, Erik. I know it's an Aston colour but it's a shade I've always loved and really feel it will suit the shape of the car. Fingers crossed.

Gary, yes, I have the same problem with the headlight rims. Sad, but there is just no way they'll fit. Like you, I've had to do a fair bit to my new body particularly where the moulds have met (sills were an area that was particularly troublesome). No amount of GRP paste was going to sort some so filler was used with a skim of paste on top but rubbing back has inevitably exposed the filler in parts.

Can't help but feel nervous about the whole process. Can I keep it in gel coat??

Erik V · Status: Offline

That is a very nice color Mike, and as you say it will suit the Peerless.

Can't wait to see the end result.

-- Edited by Erik V on Wednesday 4th of August 2021 12:58:16 PM

nigel c · Status: Offline

I've used Barcoat in the past, think its shellac based? anyhoo it has worked when I have had troublesome areas or not fully knowing what someone else has applied in the past.

Back in the day when I did mine I used a product called Reface, think its still about. 2 Pack from memory and flats down very fine.

How are your crests along the tops of the wings Mike. These are very easily rubber off/distorted when your working on the car and I only noticed when the primer coat was wet and I was actually sitting roughly inside the car looking out....

OMG I was shocked and then depressed and started over again. I just couldn't let them go as you sit there looking down them every time you drive.

I struck a line of PCV tape down the one edge of the crest and worked up to it, then cleaned it down, applied another length of PVC tape along the edge of the existing tape and then removed the existing tape and worked up to that edge.

Took another couple of days but so well worth it (for my sanity over the last 25 years at least!)

BP front wing (2020_03_05 09_55_05 UTC).jpg

mikerf · Status: Offline

Hi Nigel

I'm afraid my crests are pretty much non-existent. There is a slight one but very rounded off. At the headlight area, there was none at all and the whole headlight rim was completely round(ish). Your headlight rims had a big gap at the back top. I've now built this area up with a combination of paste and gel coat filler to form a peak that is sharp at the very front edge and blends into the more rounded shape of the wing as it goes further back. I'd have to do the same all along the top of both wings if I wanted to get that nice, sharp edge you have and frankly, the effort involved outweighs the return, imho. Trying to rub back the body to create them would be just as bad as the gel coat isn't the thickest and I'd be through to the mat in no time. In fact, there are a number of areas where the mat has become exposed simply by flatting back.

As Gary states, I think the problem arises from the moulds having been taken from a car with little or no rectification work having been done. I think it's fair to say we've both carried out a massive amount of work on our respective new shells and mine, at least, still has a number of issues (like the wing creases) that are just not going to be resolved. I'm not talking obvious imperfections here, just things I 'suspect' don't match with the original shells when fresh out of the mould (and stuck together). The likes of the front undertray and sill bottoms both of which I had to mould myself and were missing from the new shell come to mind.

It may sound like I'm having a 'pop' at the standard of the new shells but I'm not. If it hadn't been for the efforts of Ian & Celia, I very much doubt #86 would have been in sight of being back on the road. Looking at the time and effort it's taken to get the body to the point of going to paint, I now realise that if I'd had to work with the original shell, it would have broken me. On reflection, it was so badly damaged and in such poor condition that a new body shell (with all it's imperfections) was a no brainer.

nigel c · Status: Offline

that's all good honest feedback on the new bodies Mike. I really wouldn't want to take one on just from alignment side of things...but then working on mine was a long time ago and the memories have faded somewhat!

I do reckon it took me 2000 hours to get BP's body into finishing....

Gary S · Status: Offline

Thanks Mike, my post edited and corrected. The whole new body skin of my customers car needed much in terms of skim filler, which is inevitable when the mould was taken from an original body without any laborious rectification work undertaken to smooth it out. I know this would add cost to the shells but its worth paying for compared to rectification at the body shop stage with fillers which also have a labour cost. The headlamp areas are too large for the headlamp rims we have so they are not being fitted. Another batch in the future with greater tolerances might allow this. The rear wings needed work too. Paint girl should know what is compatible with the filler shes using so trust her judgement. Its her error to correct My paint man didnt use a barrier coat for the system he used as the primer was compatible. Ask for filler primer and rubbing down between coats as this is more stable than mere filler on top. Filler should be kept to a minimum but it must be expected, too.

-- Edited by Gary S on Wednesday 4th of August 2021 11:34:02 AM

Celia Stevens · Status: Offline

Good Morning everyone! Having followed this thread for some time we feel it is time to point some things out! The moulds were taken from Jon Nolans' late Series One car. There were at least three sets of moulds used by Peerless in period, or the original one was damaged and reworked, so all sorts of things do not fit, they are not all the same. Without that car no-one would have had a body. That body was then sacrificed to make the chassis jigs (Not ours jigs, the jigs that made the chassis for Garys' customers' car) So we all owe a lot to Jon! They were originally made so we could mend our racing Peerless if need be. We actually have hardly ever had to use them! (Thankfully!) They cost three to four times the cost of the item that you sell, owing to the work involved. So when we made them they cost more more than our Peerless originally cost! In todays' money they would be between £12 and £16 grand. That is just to make the item from whatever plug you've got, however good or bad it is, that is the overall cost. If a 'perfect' result is required, that would entail the donor car being prepared for a full respray up to just before the topcoat. Bearing in mind that the topcoat only takes four hours to apply, so in current rates that is between £5,000 to £60,000 (2000 at £30 per hour!! See Nigels' post -2000 hours to get BPs' body into finishing mode!!) We realise that both Mikes' and Garys' bodies had issues, but owing to our own pressure of work, and the fact that we trying to get the bodies made quickly for them, we had to contract the work out to a very good local fibreglass company whom we knew personally. We never actually made the bodies for profit, and indeed probably haven't covered our costs. That doesn't matter as they were originally built as an insurance policy for our racing. We actually have moulds for everything we race now, just in case. We have been asked lots of times for bodies which we could have sold; but they weren't to replace bodies on real cars, they were to make new ones. We are sorry that you have had problems. Ian and Celia

Gary S · Status: Offline

Hello Celia,

Im very happy to go on record now and say unequivocally I would recommend one of your shells to anyone wishing to avoid the long term pitfalls of repairing 60-year old GRP.

I fully understand the moulds were taken from an original Ph1 and have discussed with Ian previously the weighing up of charging considerably more if they were made perfect. Everyone undertaking a full restoration of a Peerless will have different budgets and expectations so satisfying everyone isnt realistic and I empathise with Ian on this fully. What we have via the new shells (or skins as I prefer to call them because the outer body is only half the story!) is the opportunity to save cars previously derelict, uneconomical and destined to be broken for spares.

For that, a huge thanks is due to Ian, yourself and Jon.

See you at Malvern?

Frank · Status: Offline

Well put Celia!

It's great that these shells are around, and the world is much better off without Peerless "replicars".

I know that rescuing one can be a real pain, especially if it's been abused, or left outside. Got the T shirt on that one.

However these cars date from the dawn of GRP, and they were seldom flat or symmetrical in any dimension. Thickness and finish were variable, and the rear wings were always bad. The doors never fit. You didn't get a modern standard of finish.

However, it's lovely to see a nice shiny one, and all respect to anyone that gets that far.

F

Erik V · Status: Offline

Hi Celia,

I'm still grateful that you made me a pair of sills for me many many years ago.

Although making them fit was still a lot of work, the new sills saved me loads of time.

And like Frank says, i don't think two Peerless cars where the same.

P&W's simply aren't VW bugs.

If i'd known beforehand how many hours i had to put into repairing my knackered old Ph1 bodywork,

i very likely would have been better off buying one of your new shells.

1 sills.JPG

-- Edited by Erik V on Tuesday 10th of August 2021 02:47:19 PM

mikerf · Status: Offline

As the originator of this thread I think I need to point out that I never intended it to turn into a critique on the quality of the new body shells but I guess that's 'thread drift' for you. As I stated above, I wasn't having a 'pop' at the quality of the new shells.

Ian & Celia, there is absolutely no need to apologise for the work I've had to do to the shell to bring it up to the point where it's ready for paint. It's something I anticipated from past experience. In the past I've restored a Scimitar Se4 Coupe, 2x Scimitar Se5A's, a Rochdale GT, Gilbern Invader III & various 'classic' kit cars so I'm very familiar with the vagaries of GRP cars. In most respects, the new Peerless shells are light years ahead of these cars (but the Gilbern was very, very good) but not without their own issues.

However, I feel it's important for any present or future Peerless owner contemplating a new shell to be aware of the issues experienced by those who have gone down this particular road and the points I've mentioned are 'issues' and NOT complaints. If anyone is expecting a perfect, ready to paint shell I'm sorry, but they're rather foolish.

Equally, I have no problem with the price I paid and fully appreciate (and sympathise with) the financial 'hit' Ian & Celia must have taken in getting the moulds made and their determination not to turn out 'replica' shells that would devalue the marque.

In short, I'm delighted with my shell. Yes, I've had to do a lot of work to it but if I didn't get it, #86 would still be a bare chassis and unlikely to get any further.

Celia Stevens · Status: Offline

Good Morning Everyone,

Thank-you for all your positive and encouraging comments, they are all appreciated, and good luck to all who are working so hard to keep the Peerless marque intact! Ian says 'I don't want to tell your painters how to paint stuff, but a little trick when painting high silver content colours (metallic pale blue. green. gold silver etc.) Use a slow thinners, because doing the fins to the boot lid area is a complete pain, and this will help to avoid getting stripes. (Solvent based.) This will work on any panel, it makes life so much easier!'

Really sorry that we cannot get to Malvern this year. The fire we have had has put us so far behind with work we just can't take any time out at all at present. Hope you all have a good time, I'll miss all of you and have one on me!

Celia

mikerf · Status: Offline

Paint now delayed while sparky finishes wiring.

mikerf · Status: Offline

At long last my Peerless is now sitting in a paint booth. Lots of work still to be done and, as usual, way behind schedule. I've chosen a different paint shop as I wasn't entirely comfortable with paint girl. The body shop I'm now using have just completed a Marcos 3L to a very high standard so have grp experience, something that's not easy to find up in this neck of the woods.

I've posted a short video of the car going on the trailer on the Facebook group. Slight worry about the exhaust (yes, there IS one fitted) connecting with the trailer but there was plenty clearance so all good.

Hopefully back with me in a couple of months.

Erik V · Status: Offline

Exiting times Mike!

Great to see the car going up the trailer under its own power.

mikerf · Status: Offline

Couldn't resist posting this.

Still in the spray shop but back to Daddy soon.

wingleton · Status: Offline

Wow!! Stunning! you must be very proud.

nigel c · Status: Offline

very pretty, you must have a spring in your step at the moment....the bounce might subside when they ask you to open your wallet doh

Gary S · Status: Offline

Top notch Mike, such a milestone thats easy to overlook unless youve been there.

All the best,

Gary

priscillawheuer · Status: Offline

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