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Post Info TOPIC: Bright Window Regulator


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Bright Window Regulator


In the process of stripping both doors, I've discovered why the drivers door glass won't go up. There's no lift mechanism. Having taken both regulators out, I can see that the drivers door one is missing one of the internal springs that control the parallelogram in it's lifting motion.

The following pictures highlight the problem.

ns door (1).jpg

The yellow circles (?) show the tangs on what I believe is the spring that acts a a brake as the window lowers and the blue circle on the same arm is, I think, where the arm locates on the inner spring (also circled in blue) on the following picture.

os door.jpg

This is all there was on the drivers door. No lift mechanism and no window runner. As can be seen there are no tangs protruding through the larger cut-out which would suggest that the breaking spring is missing. Given that the riveted nut in the middle of the regulator has not been removed, I find the fact that the spring is missing a little strange.

Anyway, what is the likelihood of being able to repair this? I believe the missing spring is under tension so how practical is it to dis-assemble the working passenger door regulator, copy the missing spring and then re-assemble both?

The parallelogram and window runner are not too hard to fabricate so that isn't too much of an issue but if anyone has a spare and willing to sell please let me know.

I'm also assuming the regulators are handed?   



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The bits are the same, it's the assembly that makes it right or left.

Nigel C has inherited all my spare bits to fix his windows, undamaged brake springs with ears are rare as chicken lips.

Good luck!

F



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guilty! I will endevour to go through your box Frank and make mine work, onest!

On the spring side of things, is this the main problem, I seem to remember the shaft through the middle rounds the casing off?

I also remember someone machining new cases for their own restoration project?

pm sent Frank (and you already have on in your inbox from a couple of days ago!)

 



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Hmmm. You could be right, Nigel. Whilst the passenger door works fine, the drivers handle can turn through 360. Not sure if it's the lack of spring or the shaft rounding off that's caused this.

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The rounded holes are fixable, if you take a strip of 1.2mm steel about 1/4 inch wide and fold it it a square so that it's a tight fit on the shaft.  Now open out the rounded hole to take the steel, and araldite the two together.  At least one of those in the box of bits has been fixed like this.

The curly flat spring is the window counterbalance.  Putting this in the other way up changes  L to R.

The large spring made of square steel with "ears" is the brake.  These rust, jam, and the ears break off.  These are a problem, because I can't fix these.

F



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But can they be fabricated, Frank? And would a fair bit of play in the one that works be indicative that the hole is in danger of rounding off in that one too?



-- Edited by mikerf on Wednesday 8th of July 2020 07:27:43 PM

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Nigel said he knew a man who.........

Well beyond me I'm afraid.  

F



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Well tonight i dug up my regulators to see if i can be of help.

I found two of these and they both work, but they look different.

One has two parallel arms and the other has three, and the ones on my Phase2 have only one arm.

And what surprised me is that one has a brake spring made out of 3mm square wire and the other one made of 3mm round wire.

So if round spring wire also works, it would be easier to source i guess?

20200708_203746.jpg20200708_213821.jpg20200708_213715.jpg20200708_213804.jpg



-- Edited by Erik V on Wednesday 8th of July 2020 09:28:17 PM

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Thank you, Erik. The regulator with 2 arms is the same as the working one I have. The one with 3 arms is certainly different and I notice dog legs in the arms that aren't there on the 2 arm one. The door internals are certainly different between P1 & P2 cars. Much more bracing and more grp on the shells.

Interesting that 1 has a round section spring and the other square. Given that this one is meant to act as a brake, I'm not sure how effective round section would be.

Going to speak to my local engineering shop tomorrow and will report on my findings

Of more concern is that one regulator has a completely rounded out square hole and the other seems to be going the same way but as Frank says, this should be repairable.

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they were fitted to Rover P2 I think and taxi's I have heard. I picked one up at an auto jumble that has three arms I think....I'll go look

They do appear from time to time....handles on the other hand evileye



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The round spring wire brake works fine, I can imagine it will give more wear to the alloy drum.

There is a complete one for sale:

https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/rolls-royce-bentley-mkvi-r-type-dawn-wraith/body/rolls-bentley-mkvi-door/rolls-bentley-mkvi-door/regulator-quick-lift-rh-rb7130.html

Appearantly also used on RR, but unfortunately also RR prices then. 



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Great spot, Erik. But not sure yet if they actually have one/any. And the price confuseconfuse. Thankfully I have both handles.

Nigel, are you suggesting you may have a spare??

 



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no, sorry Mike. at the moment I have lots of bits from two cars and a box of "chicken lips" that belong to Frank. When I pluck up the courage to sift through what I have and build two up I will know what I/Frank have left



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No problem, Nigel. Went to my local engineers today to let them have a look and told them the price of the one on Flying Spares. Their response? It's a no-brainer, buy the one from Flying Spares.

On the subject, I'm going to try Franks fix for sorting out the rounding of the alloy back plate on the passenger door one. Is disassembly easy and is there anything under tension that's likely to spring across the workshop and disappear forever?

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Have to say, hand on heart for both these responses:

I thought it reasonable (as how many chicken lips can you find whilst rummaging through rocking horse s**t)

i haven't taken one fully apart! as all I have owned in the past are congealed lumps of festering ali/steel.



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https://replacementpartsinc.com/1946-1955-rolls-royce-bentley/interior/quick-lift-regulator-handle-used-rb2432u/

https://replacementpartsinc.com/1946-1955-rolls-royce-bentley/interior/quick-lift-regulator-handle-rb2432/

https://replacementpartsinc.com/quick-lift-regulator-left-hand-rb7131/

 

 



-- Edited by Erik V on Monday 20th of July 2020 03:36:39 PM

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Well spotted, Erik. Thankfully I've got both handles and I've just ordered the missing regulator from Flying Spares. Thanks for the heads up, though. Might be of help to our American friends.

I'm not convinced that the handles are the same as the Peerless ones. At least not the ones I've got. There appears to be a much more pronounced hook at the end of the handle.

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Mike, i thought the same about the handles but i'n not sure.

Just looked at my P2 handles and they seem to be flatter indeed.



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Same with mine, Erik. Not entirely sure those would work. I'm certain the handles fit fairly close to the door cards both at the end that attaches to the regulator and at the other end.

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For anyone tempted to fit the Rolls Royce versions of the infamous Bright Regulator, be advised that a L/H Rolls regulator fits a R/H Peerless and vise versa.

Ask me how I know?

I have a (sort of) working l/h regulator and foolishly thought if I ordered a r/h regulator from Flying Spares, I'd end up with a pair! No such luck. I now have 2 l/h regulators.

Happily, Flying Spares will do an exchange and, hopefully, I'll actually end up with a pair.

Ah, the wonderful world of Peerless ownership.

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Ah, so Rolls Royce put them in the wrong way around? :)

I never new this.

Good to hear they will do an exchange. 



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Erik, I had a look at the incorrect RR regulator I received from Flying Spares and noticed that it has the round section brake spring rather than the square section one found on Peerless regulators. I assume the replacement one will be the same.

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Erik V wrote:

Ah, so Rolls Royce put them in the wrong way around? :)

Naturally, Peerless obviously got it right. What do Rolls Royce know about engineering biggrinbiggrinbiggrin


 



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The bit that makes it left or right is which way you put the window support spring in.I

So all the bits are identical, it's the assembly sequence that makes it handed.

F



-- Edited by Frank on Wednesday 22nd of July 2020 11:40:06 AM

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But surely the window runners are handed, Frank. I can't see how I could take the runner off and reverse it for the other side. I understand that the internals of the regulator can be reversed to make it operate on either side but I'm not sure that would work with the parallelogram and runner? If it was just the regulator I needed, then, yes, I could easily reverse it but I need the whole assembly.

Btw, Frank. Can you provide any info on how to compress the square brake spring and get it back inside the casing? Having taken mine apart and cleaned out all the congealed grease/mud/alloy filings I'm almost ready to reassemble once I've sorted out the rounded off square hole.

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Phase 2 and Warwicks only have one arm, no parallelogram.  Having a quarterlight makes the window narrower, so the parallegram bit would foul the window frame at the end of its travel.  The arm is about an Inch longer as well, it has has a bit welded on.

The parallellogram bit seems to vary in size and number of arms according to where you've sourced the contraption from, but it's only a flat bit of metal after all.  Sorry, I don't have a drawing/sample of a P1 original to help here.

The channel peice on the bottom of the window is more of a pain to make it it's rusted away. I rolled a steel strip around a 10km drill and welded the flange on.  The original is only held on by the friction of the rubber, windscreen glue does a better job here.

F

 

 



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Sorry. Should have made myself clearer. As Frank says, the regulator itself can be changed to suit either door although it's a bit of a faff. It's the parallelogram that's sided.

Frank, although the arms of the P1 parallelogram are flat, the runner (the bit with the 2 wheels) has 2 slight dog legs in it and, although not impossible to fabricate, would be difficult without copious amounts of heat and some blacksmithing skills.

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Further to all this, can anyone advise if the regulator internals should be re-assembled dry or with a bit of grease?

Of the 2 I have, the complete one looked if it might have had grease in it (although it might just have been a combination of water, alloy dust, rust and muck) and the one with the missing brake spring looked to be clean & dry. This might be due to the possibility that someone had previously taken it apart and cleaned it out.

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I'm pretty sure if you assemble it dry the brake spring will chew up the alloy drum in no time.

Think any general purpose grease will do, as long it's water resistant.



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You need grease to stop steel/Ali corrosion.  I used copper grease like you would on wheel nuts for alloy wheels.

F



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