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Post Info TOPIC: De Dion Inner Bearing Collars. NEW!
Gary S


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De Dion Inner Bearing Collars. NEW!
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Hello,

I'm gauging interest in new Inner Bearing Collars for the De Dion tube halfshaft set-up.

I'm having some machined up for my customer's Phase 1 car and hope to be able to supply them as a pair with new double-lipped seals.

If you're not sure which part that is, take a look at the pic of the shot blasted collar and in particular the worn groove created by the old leather seal after 60 years, which is now porous and useless at keeping grease in, dirt out.

If you've ever wondered what a searing collar is, it's when you don't take your shirt off as it's being ironed.

All the best,

Gary

 



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nigel c


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Stirling Stuff Mr S!

These are a good thing to replace when rebuilding your De Dion as they are invariably worn by the seal but, in my case (and I suspect in others) if stood for a long period the seal sticks to the this collar and then when

new found energy is put through the system (IE you push the wreck from storage point A to point B in you're ever decreasing attempts to restore your pipe dreams) the collar stays stuck to the seal and rotates around the shaft.

Then when you finally do drive the car they stay that way and you have a steel shaft rotating within the steel collar which then creates a gap for the grease to leak through.

So if you are serious about rebuilding your De Dion I'd jump in for a set.....

 

Gary, put me down for a pairwink



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DaveC


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I'll take a pair too, Gary. Add to the "box of unobtainability"
dave

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Dave GT2 
DaveC


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Gary, any word on these getting created?

I just disassembled the first side of the de dion, and would like to replace as much as i can.

I can confirm the hub is a devil to remove, though it did come off with a bang and a 7 ton puller. Made my son and I jump when it did, too.



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Dave GT2 
Gary S


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Hello Dave,

Yes, having them made is not a problem. Lead time will be a few weeks currently because the engineer has plenty of pre-Christmas workload to commit to already.

Anyone else wanting a pair, I suggest you just say yes and I'll confirm prices ASAP. If you need seals, I'll check my supplier and confirm those too.

All the best,

Gary



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nigel c


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I'd like a nice pair Gary and happy to play with them after xmas omfg.gif



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Greg Haskin


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Please put me on the list as well. Thank you for doing this. Greg Haskin

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Marcus


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I would like a pair (with seals).

Marcus in Sweden

 



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DaveC


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I'm going to finish off the thread (peerless-gt.activeboard.com/t66079337/rear-axle-dimensions-and-seals/) by adding this info here, for completeness.

Here's what I've found:

Seal 14774 (on whats it off): Int diameter: 38mm
Seal 18657 (off my car): Int diameter: 47.63mm

My inner bearing collar is OD 47.7mm, ID 33.3mm and the collar section is 42mm diameter

So, the 18657 is the one that fits, so "what's it off" is incorrect, assuming that my inner bearing collar is correctly sized.

The dimensions of 18657 is the same as that in Gary's picture about (ID 1.875" = 47.63mm), again showing that what's it off is incorrect.

The collar on my shaft is in relatively good condition compared that from Gary's customer's car. However is it pulled off easily by hand, I assume that at some point it suffered from what Nigel descried - the shaft running in the collar, rather than the collar i the seal.

So here's my stupid question: Should the collar be a press-fit like a bearing? If not, what stops the shaft turning in the collar anyway, letting grease out.



-- Edited by DaveC on Wednesday 4th of December 2019 03:49:01 AM

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Dave GT2 
nigel c


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I would have thought a press fit so long as your shaft is round enough? if its a press fit then it shouldn't leak grease although you could put a little sleeve lock on it as well?



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DaveC


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So - sleeve lock works a treat on the bearing collar.

But - the seal that came off the car is a CR 18657, but the replacements i bought simply will not go into the back of the de dion carrier. Same seal code, everything, from what i can tell. Does anyone have a secret for getting very tight CR seals like this in? The de dion is still in the car, so access is limited, esp with the inner bearing already pressed onto the axle.

I've found another seal, with the same shaft diameter but a squeak smaller OD (0.029") that might fit, but it's HW rather than CRW1 so doesn't have the steel spring. I figure that might work as it's still better than the original from the 50's.

Has anyone else struggled with inner seals?



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Dave GT2 
Gary S


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Hello All,

An interesting thread on a topic one I've encountered twice in recent years, in part on my own car and total rebuild on my customer's car, hence the new collars for my customer's car.

After much discussion and debate with the engineer who makes the collars, we decided to stick with the collars as designed. Our first thoughts were they should be held firm to prevent rotation and wear on the seal but also to prevent wear to the shaft. Attempting to pin them will weaken the half shaft so heated tolerance fit was our next thought, but we discounted that too. My customer's car's shafts have no witness marks suggesting rotation of the collars so clearly they were not spinning on the shafts, and there's a reason for this.

When both inner and outer bearing races are correctly shimmed, (**Important** pre-load on the inners) the collar is pinned in position by the inner races. This is why the correct 2523S bearings are essential unless you machine shims and a new collar accordingly (search for Duncan's posts about this on this Forum). Before dismantling the half shafts I suggest checking for play. If none exists, make note of the inner and outer shims and refit them assuming they are serviceable.

In terms of inner and outer seals, I had no problem sourcing them using the original part numbers on this forum and they are available as improved double lip seals, too.

All the best,

Gary

 



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GT200D62


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How much for everything? I am rebuilding the rear end and sending the pumpkin out and would like to send full set up but do not know the best way to remove it from the car. Like I said, I dropped the pumpkin out and removed half-shafts. Now if I unbolt the leaf spring on one side and pull it through on opposite side is that possible? I know we want to replace all seals and bearings and anything else that is worn. I am just very green with mechanical know how and my Grandfather has been not feeling well so his brain and advise are not always there helping me. I want to get this car done so we can enjoy it together as he is the greatest man I know, humble, and very wise, not to forget an excellent Grandfather. He went to Kettering University (Gm Institute) in the last 50's but had to take over the family business right after graduation. So this is the only car I have to restore but I get nervous as only 50 were made for the American market and do not want to mess anything up.

Sorry for the long reply. Please any parts and whatever is needed for the rear end I will need.

IMG_1447.JPGIMG_1463.JPGIMG_1464.JPGIMG_1465.JPGIMG_1466.JPGIMG_1467.JPGIMG_1600.JPG



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RHL "Collector of Fine Scrap Iron"
GT200D62


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Are these ready for purchase?  What seals are there for the de dion tube hub?



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RHL "Collector of Fine Scrap Iron"
DaveC


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The "What's It Off" thread in this forum, that is always at the top of the thread list, has information on seals, bearings, races, and much more.

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Dave GT2 
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