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Post Info TOPIC: Restoration of Chassis 86


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Restoration of Chassis 86


Has anyone any idea of the bush size that fits around the bolt holding the front of the leaf spring to the chassis? The bolt and bush were rusted solid and had to be cut off when I stripped the car so I'll have to get new ones made up. I don't suppose they were a stock item.

 



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Ah.... The bolt.

If you look in detail at what you have, you'll see that the load on the inner edge is taken
on the threaded part of the bolt into a narrow bracket.  Any sideways forces will wear the
thread away in no time, so the brackets probably already nadgered.

A cunning and much stronger solution is to support the inner edge with an extra 1.5 x 1.5"
chassis member, with tubular supports in both inner and outer, and then ream through
both tubes together. You can then use a "standard" TR3 spring pivot pin, and it will have decent
size bearing surfaces, which won't wear.  The reamer is the same size as the one you used
on the front trunnions.

If you've had to cut the bolt off then you'll be replacing the outer tube anyway, just get the
extra inner ones turned at the same time.

Attached picture...
With extra triangular stiffening bracket on the inner edge (where FJ won't notice it)

Frank the chassis bodger.



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Thank Frank. I had intended to reinforce the inner locating tab but not in the manner you suggest. However, I think your suggestion of reaming it and adding an additional bit of tube is a better idea than mine. As you say, this would allow me to use the TR pins which I happen to have.

My problem is that the outer chassis rail in which the original bush located is fine. It was the pin rusted onto the bush that gave me the problem in removing and I had to cut the head off. rear pin close up.jpg

The hole through which it went is still in good condition. I suppose I could plate over it on the outside and then drill a smaller hole at the same diameter as the TR pin? I'd still like to bush the outer chassis rail and the inner one as per your suggestion, though. Any opinions would be welcome.

Another problem I have is that the spring presently pulls the axle so close to the chassis rail that the inner hub won't turn.

DSC_0397.JPG

I appreciate that there is very little weight on the spring at the moment and as this increases, the spring will settle but I'm concerned that the hub will still be very close to the chassis rail.

I've overcome this temporarily by strapping up the spring so the axle rises sufficiently to allow the hub to turn without fouling the chassis rail.DSC_0400.JPG

Hopefuly this problem will resolve itself as more weight goes onto the body and compresses the spring but is this normal?

On the plus side, this is the first wheel on the car in 20 odd years.



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Hi Mike:

Your chassis is looking good!
You seem to have started with much better raw material than I usually do.
In my case the bolt had rusted solid in the sleeve, and the chassis was so
corroded that the sleeve came away. Oh, and the spring was broken.

The spring should compress with the car's weight, and the driveshaft will clear, but
only when the body (and glass) are installed. In the meantime the de-dion tube
should be sitting on the lower bumpstops. My bumpstops had a rubber cushion
on the top, but I coudn't identify the source, so I used a pair of front bumpstops
(the cone shaped ones). If you put a thread in the top of the bumpstop upright
you can make these adjustable.

Will you be sticking with the rear lever arm shocks?

Good Luck!

F

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Thanks, Frank. In fact it's had a lot of work and was in a considerably worse state when I first got the car. The rear part of the chassis was probably the best part with most of the corrosion at the front. Anyway, long story short, I did all the welding work after I stripped the car around 20 years ago and i'm glad i did. Numerous other projects have come and gone in the intervening years but the chassis has lasted well.

I'm glad you confirmed my feelings that once weight is applied, the hub will clear the chassis rail. It is, as you hinted, sitting on the bump stops. Do you think there would be enough clearance for a nut to be welded to the top of the bump stop instead of tapping a hole?

Yes, i'll be sticking with lever arms but uprated ones.



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Yes, you should just about get a 1/2 nut in there.

I'd be tempted to just take the top 10mm off with a
cutting disk and weld a bit of 8mm plate on, with the
thread tapped in it.  You'd probably would be able to do
this with the de-dion in place.  Then add spacers under
the bumpstop to get the de-dion exactly where you want it.

I'm a bit of a radical, can't leave anything alone.

Actually, there is some logic to the bodges, when I took
#278 apart it had been a competition car all of it's life, and
the chassis was cracked in several interesting places. 
And my lad, Dave, was working in F1 design, so there was
a good source of local reference opinion.

I just love these cars.

F



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Excellent plan, Frank. Unless you have copyright, I think I'll take you up on that one. I just happen to have some suitable plate lying around and i'll oreder a couple of threaded bump stops fom Rimmers. Your advice is much appreciated.

I thought I might induce a bit of De Dion envy here by attaching the following.

IMG_0445.JPG

Recently rebuilt by Agra Engineering in Dundee with all new bearings (available locally at a very reasonable price), machined hub faces to ensure they're nice and flat and TR4 studs inserted to get rid of the old threaded ones. Lovely job.



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Look what's arrived in my workshop biggrinbiggrin

 DSC_0414.JPG

 

My thanks to Ian and Celia for bringing this up to me.

 

No excuses now.



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Made these up Sunday morning.

DSC_0421.JPG

 

As per Franks instructions. to replace the bare metal discs under the De Dion tube.



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mikerf wrote:

Look what's arrived in my workshop biggrinbiggrin

 DSC_0414.JPG

 

My thanks to Ian and Celia for bringing this up to me.

 

No excuses now.


 That is a big WOW!!



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I hate to say this after all the years I have been in contact with you Mike, lookin sexy my friend!



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Thanks, Nigel. The car's looking good too.

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Excellent Mike, good work.

All the best,

Gary

 



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Rust Never Sleeps - Cavity Wax and Valium Should Do It


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Thought I'd add a little update on work so far.

One of the areas requiring improvement is the way the front of the rear spring is located. The factory solution was far from ideal with a threaded section of bolt sitting on a narrow flange. This has the effect of wearing the flange to a undesirable degree and IMHO, should be improved upon.

This is what I came up with.

First, start with these.

Two bushes machined to take a full length TR3 spring pin. The o/d is 25mm.

DSC_0422.JPG

Part 2 to follow.



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Next, drill the chassis rail and inner flange with a 25mm drill and insert tube like so.

DSC_0425.JPG

 

 

Now, prepare a new upright (same size as bottom chassis rail), position and mark with 25mm drill bit. Remove new upright and use pillar drill to drill 25mm a hole through both side and re-fit like so.

DSC_0429.JPG

 

You'll no doubt notice that the inner side of the chassis upright is a little damaged. This happened when the old pin was removed and is now repaired when the whole assemblys was welded in place.

Once everything had been welded up and the bush was secure in both the outer, original chassis upright and the new inner upright, I used a cutting disk to remove the section of bush where the spring fits. A little bit of grinding and both inner faces were nice and clean and ready for the spring.

The logic behind all this is that I can now use TR spring pins and both sides of the bush in which it fits are perfectly aligned.

If anyone sees anything wrong with this solution, please let me know before I start the other side.

Other progress includes new sheet metal welded in all around the passenger footwell.

Slow going, I know but the restoration budget has been badly hit by my sons forthcoming wedding. So inconsiderate of him disbeliefdisbeliefdisbelief

 

 

 



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That's looking very nice Mike!

The other (small) recommendation is to use new shackles and Nylatron bushes at the
trailing end of the springs. It doesn't stop all the sideways movement, because the
spring will always move a bit, but it keeps it well under control, and is a lot cheaper
and neater than trying to fabricate (and mount) a panhard rod.

Frank (I hate rubber bushes) from Felixstowe.




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Thanks, Frank.

Way ahead of you on that one. I've already got new shackles and polybushes. In fact, I've got new bushes to fit all round. Not to mention new springs, dampers, ball jounts etc, etc. The list goes on.

Finished the last little bit of welding on the passenger footwell this morning. Drivers side next. I think I'll try and fabricate the box section I mentioned in the 'Bulkhead anomaly' thread. It'll be handy for hiding extra cigars in when returning from continental trips.

Once I've done that, it will be the other side at the rear and the rad supports and that should be all the welding done. Progress should speed up after that.

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Hey Mike we're really crackin on with this one, great! I think I will have really try and find a job that will take me up your way for a good look.

 

On the matter of the springs I made this little "Flintstones" apparatus to stretch the spring out to fit to the car.

two pieces of 2x1 with a rounded edge where the one meets the other. Two side panels screwed on to one timber just to stop the other from popping out and a nice long screw (haven't had one of those in a long time)

wrestle it to the ground and get it in the right position.... (here we go again) and put the timber in between the spring eyes and then with a battery drill, wind the screw in.

I actually screwed mine in the back of the car (sorry).... I'll get me coat

 

IMG-20140516-01424 (Large).jpg   IMG-20140516-01425 (Large).jpg



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Well, if you insist, Nigel. I have a stand to put up at the SECC in January. You can come and lend a hand, if you want.

That device looks like something I could use to get shoes to fit my rather large feet!

Seriously though, my springs didn't have anything like the curve on them that yours do and they fitted relatively easily. Where's the flat plate that goes along the bottom or are those off a Warwick?

Excellent idea, though.



-- Edited by mikerf on Tuesday 8th of December 2015 06:30:43 PM

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never liked the idea of the flat plate and as the guy that originally did my first set of springs in the 90's said "if you want those plates putting back on those springs you

can f**k off and take them somewhere else, springs should never be forced to stop like that!"

And I guess he's right. If you look at what that plate actually does it criminal. when the spring flattens out under extreme loads like carrying passenger in the back etc

it stops it form going any further. But if you look at the length of it its putting a hell of a lot of strain on the last 3" either end of the spring.

I'm running (from a poor memory) TR4 up rated springs with an extra leaf made and set in, then reset with a bit more curve.

i can obtain a little extra height on the back of mine because the two outer bottom horizontal tubes that run directly underneath the rear drive-shaft UJ's are set further in.

This allows the UJ's to miss the chassis rails hence gaining height wink

 

seat belt bp 006 (Large).jpg



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Hi Nigel,

With the plates removed from the leaf springs, how do you prevent the suspension to bottom out then?

Is this done by the telescopic shock absorbers?

Setting those bottom tubes further in is a good idea, on my chassis they're also really close to the UJ's.

Might as well take these out and put them in futher also.



-- Edited by Erik V on Thursday 10th of December 2015 06:43:36 PM



-- Edited by Erik V on Thursday 10th of December 2015 06:44:08 PM

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Folks:

The upper limit of the rear suspension is when the spare wheel well buries itself
in the tarmac, and/or the rear tyres start to tear chunks out of the inner face of
the rear arches.  As Nigel says, the "flat plate" is Peerless crude solution, but it
overloads the spring, and produces a distinctly non-linear spring rate.
The lower limit is when the UJ's contact the chassis rail (unless held off by an
adjustable bump stop as described above), and the wheel will lift off the tarmac.
When pressing on, you are aware when either of these limits are reached, and
things will get interesting and unpredictable if you persist in this behaviour.

Modifying things to allow movement outside these limits might seem a good idea
but I would caution that increasing the possible roll angles will have lots of undesirable
affects on camber and toe-in angles at the front end.  Installing a rack and modifying the
camber/castor might help here, but this is major surgery.  A much better plan is to keep the
plot within sensible angles, by increasing the spring rates.  I used +2 1/2 leaves
at the back (#278) and 280lb springs at the front.

This works well, but will be far too harsh for some, and puts immense loads into
the chassis, around the front of the rear spring mounts, and at the joint of the down tubes
to the front turrets.  Both of these areas will eventually crack unless reinforced.

In the end, it's a 60-year old sports car, and although some small improvements are possible
it all needs to be kept in context.  It's never going to be a TVR Griff or GT40, and it has no
roll-over protection, and that rigid steering column is pointed right at your chest.

Frank



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I hear you Frank, I only did it to gain a little height at the back end which it has enabled me to do. Although the best modification I have done over the years to gain ground clearance is

running the exhaust system through the centre tunnel.biggrin



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"The upper limit of the rear suspension is when the spare wheel well buries itself in the tarmac"

You're right Frank, I do remember we visited Alan House back in 1998 and he took me and my wife for a spin in his Peerless.
Travelling at reasonable high speeds over some bumpy back roads sometimes there was a loud grinding noise from the rear of the car, bit scary to be honest.

Anyway I'm not trying to turn the car into something modern.

And I do have the exhaust running through the centre tunnel, so I should be alright then.

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Well, it's been a while since anybody's posted anything on the forum so I thought I'd do a little update on my very slow progress. Chassis 86 is now on 4 wheels!!! Woo Hoo!

 

Taken a lot longer than I intended but its the first time shes rolled in over 20 years. 

 

On the plus side I now have (in addition to all of the above) uprated front springs, polybushes all round, koni adjustable shocks, calipers rebuilt and powder coated in BRG by BiggRed, uprated rear leaver arm dampers by Revington and loads of other bits I can't remember at the moment.

 

The only downside, and a bit of a hold up is trying to get someone to fabricate the diff carrier for me. Although I can weld reasonably well, I don't trust myself to do this part well enough. I would probably end up with at least 12 crap ones before I got a usable one.

 

Anyway, a couple of pics for your entertainment.

 

20160702_162756 small.jpg

 

20160702_162818 small.jpg

 



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lookin good !wink

And what's with the non standard heater? I think I might have to mark you down on that at our next concours..............



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Ah! Yes! The heater?

Well, it's like this, Nigel.

Actually, the original was missing from the car when I bought it. The p.o. had done a reasonable job of setting the car up for long term storage including draining the fluids. I guess, in the process, the heater was removed and put in the proverbial safe place. Wherever it went, it certainly didn't stay with the car.

The one you see in the pics is a 5kw unit from CBS which should be a bit more efficient. I've still to figure out how best to fit it but I'm sure I'll work something out. I splashed out on a new heated front screen so demisting shouldn't be an issue but I do like to keep my tootsies warm.


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Its a Peerless, your bloody tootsies are baked all year round as standard! smile

 



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But Nigel, you need to remember I live in the frozen north. It only gets above 10 degrees twice a year here.

It's not like down south where you get all that continental weather and monsoons..

You currently have people playing tennis! Outdoors! IN SHORTS!

You'd get frostbite if you tried that up here.

The heater stays,




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Hello! I am looking for the question to the same answer... Thanks for opening this thread. Make sure to follow http://resumeperk.com/blog/update-my-resume-expert-help in case you need an urgent assistance! 



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