The Peerless & Warwick Discussion Forum

Date: Jul 28, 2005

RE: Peerless Prices.

Date: Jul 29, 2005

Hi Steve

Sure your cars a rare one and its great another one is saved but hey the value what does it matter they should be restored to drive and have some fun in.

I cant wait to finish my long term rebuild and whats it going to be worth?

To me Priceless (or peerless) it wont be for sale.

Hope you enjoy yours as much.

Date: Jul 29, 2005

Here here, well said Tony a true P&W comment.

Find, rebuild, run in, THRASH, rebuild, THRASH and leave to your kids.

They will have fond memories as a kid goin to all these strange places that just happened to be a long way away but the roads were great. Then they find there was a short cut to most of them and when they take the car for an MOT (Vehicle worthy test) they go and stamp on your ashes cause you’ve left them all the work.

Date: Aug 28, 2005

Hi Steve,

Nice to hear from you on the Forum. You have to bear in mind that my answers to your question will be incredibly biased as I own the other one ! So lets see, there's only 3 or perhaps 4 genuine Buick GT350's (genuine deep cradle chassis, V8 Bulkhead, V8 Bonnet, Buick engine etc) that we know of and bearing in mind the price of £9k to £10k ($13k to $15k) for a top notch Peerless/Warwick with history, I think we should be looking at £15k to £18k ($22k to $27k) for a top notch A1 genuine Buick GT350. What dya think Steve or should we say more !Lets get them heading towards the Gordon-Keeble price, lets face it, whats a G-K if its not a Phase 2 Warwick !

But as Nige says, It matters not what they are worth (until you're broke), but that you thras.... enjoy them.

P.S. Steve, please could you contact me ASAP as I'll be in New York in a few weeks time and I would like to meet up if we can, Cheers, Jon

Date: Aug 30, 2005

John Nolan:

A mate of mine here in Norway is trying to get hold of the registrars email, all the contact links seem to be buggered up on the website.

Basically he wants a Warwick or Peerless badly!, and he missed out on the lovely green one with the cream wires by TWO DAYS after it being up for sale for almost a year.

Date: Aug 30, 2005

My email adress is:

thorsvaboe@gmail.com

Date: Jun 2, 2006

Is this webpage still alive? I'm still looking for a Peerless GT. If you have any suggestions, please let me know.

Bob

Date: Jun 3, 2006

yea Bob were still kickin n screamin.

No cars about at the moment, I've e mailed the "yellow one" to see if it's still for sale in the states.

i'm in the middle of updating honest!

nigel. registrar

Date: Jun 15, 2006

Hey Bob,

Where are you looking for a Peerless? NAM or UK? Am I going to have to arm wrestle you over it if one comes up for sale?

I am working on buying a Peerless here in the states, but the seller's price shows that he is not serious about actually parting with it.

Bill Brewer

Tehachapi, California

Date: Jul 17, 2006

Cheers, Rory from California here .

I just bought a fairly tidy Phase 2 from Rob Henry in Southern California. I paid $9000 US for the car and I'm estatic at the value of exotic car I got for the money. I had been looking for a car for sometime, but they never show up for sale in the usual places like Hemmings Motor News...I guess there is just not alot of them here.

I agree that they are underappreciated cars and the more pristiine cars you see out there, the better. After seeing Ron Cressey race his Peerless at Sears Point last month , I knew I had to have one.

Rory Rinebold
#220
carparts@earthlink.net

Date: Oct 20, 2006

Greetings, folks. I'm so sorry to stir up old topics that members might prefer to forget, but I came across this thread and couldn't help but make a comment.

I've always wanted a sidescreen TR, a Peerless/Warwick and a classic saloon car that's not too exotic as a bit of a collection. The nearest I got in the UK was a series of early TR's that were in rough condition. I could never afford to get them in the condition they deserved after paying what I considered too much money for what they were worth.

A few years ago we took an opportunity to move to Canada. Because TR's are worth much less here, I suddenly was able to afford a pretty decent sidescreen TR, so I bought a '58 TR3A for 4,000 quid that would be worth probably 8,000 or 9,000 in the UK (if I ever had to sell it, you know what I'd do!!!). Four years later, two-thirds of the dream is fulfilled because I came across a lovely 1965 Volvo PV544 Sport for a bargain price. The final one-third of the dream has yet to be fulfilled and if prices start to rise, I'll never make it.

My point is that I believe Peerless/Warwicks are not undervalued; it's the rest of the classic cars that are overvalued. Prices have escalated so much that the real enthusiasts are now precluded from the hobby. Lots of overvalued cars are falling into the hands of people who know nothing about them and they buy them for a lark. In the 1960's, my dad raced pre-war Bentleys and Alvises, then sold them in the late 60's for a couple of hundred quid each. Now similar Bentleys are worth 200,000 quid. Who buys them? Is it the real enthusiasts or just the people that can afford them?

I don't think there's anything we can do about it because the movement is too big. It's just a shame that we can't go back to the days when the real enthusiasts were buying sidescreen TR's, Peerlesses, Daimler Darts, Jowett Jupiters, etc. for 200 or 300 quid, as opposed to investors or pretend enthusiasts with loadsa dough that buy them for the wrong reasons, without knowing the history these vehicles made to the automotive industry. There; that's my contribution!

Kind regards and further apologies. Tim

Date: Oct 20, 2006

I understand your point Tim.

I suspect that the discrepancy in prices between UK and US/Canada is partly down to the recent increase in UK import TAX, a couple of years ago there were several people repatriating TR's, I only know of two doing it now, and one of those only breaks the cars for spares. Once the cost of transport is factored in, you may not make enough to make it worth shipping.

Apart from the difference in US/UK prices, it seems desperately unfair that Peerless fetch so little in the UK open market. The value of the car compares poorly to similar cars of other marques with a competition heritage, such as TVR/Lotus/Ginetta, etc, and probably half as much as an equivalent TR3A. True, compared to the Pebble Beach Pose-Mobiles (Aston, Bentley, Ferrari) we are in a different league, and I'll agree that many of these are silly money, but they always were.

At this value, a non-running car (and even some running ones) are worth more as TR spares, and many have been robbed for parts over the years. This is the equation that we need to overcome, to make it a bit more financially viable to restore all those cars out there that "will get done someday". Nobody expects to make a fortune restoring these things, but it would be really nice if just the cost of parts required could be reflected in the result. This is going to get worse when cellulose paint gets discontinued later this year. When a home respray at £150 for materials turns into a £2500 professional job nobody will bother, unless the value of a well-presented car reflects some of the cost.

In the end, the market decides, but those of us "over here" are determined to increase the public profile of these cars. We want to turn "What sort of car is that?" into "Is that a Peerless?"

FF

Date: Oct 21, 2006

I second all you say Frank, but the way we are all going now, with the racing, you lending Gary your car for a charity run across the continent and the magazine articles ( with Garys' help ) Also Peter the racing Peerless is going to be on the Classics Monthly stand at the Classic Car Show at the NEC weekend after next, we are starting to be recognised--keep it up everyone ! And good luck Tim with your efforts to get a Peerless

Date: Dec 16, 2006

Hi,

I think you might be being a bit hard on other vintage and classic car owners.

Yes, prices are high but so are restoration costs.

This is also a function of glassfibre bodies. After all you can’t just produce a mould for alloy or steel.

And of course, a fair number of Bentleys, Astons et al are out there being enjoyed and even raced.

I’m in the position of having both a vintage car and a phase 1 in the workshop waiting to be done. As a wannabe racer, I can get a lot more track time for my money with the vintage car. Unfortunately that means that I have to consider whether time and money (only one of which is ever available at one time) will allow both to be done; almost certainly not!

So should a good home be sought for the Peerless, or will it sit in the corner for another 15 years.

Date: Dec 22, 2006

Keep it in the corner for another 15 years if you have to.

How much does it owe you, I still look at my car as £600 which is what I paid for it. In boxes!

I don’t look at any of my cars as investments, sure if we come on hard times they will go, the cluley last of all I hasten to add but family life is more important.

Our "profile" at the moment keeps our cars interesting and affordable to the true enthusiast...that’s the ones with oil under their nails, beer in their hands, tents in the boot and a friendly ear to most.

Remember dogs are like their owners and so are cars, the better the pedigree the higher the cost, the higher the cost the....

So get one done at least (peerless preferably of course!) and go thrash it.

Date: May 15, 2007

I have a peerless gt-2 possibly for sale. 80% restored. great car. wire whell etc.. I am in So. Cal and the car is number 15x? I have the tag on the car and the registration from the original owner. It seems to have been a rose or red colored car. If you are a serious buyer please contact me @ 760-427-9374. So. Cal Time and my name is lance. I am selling many cars I own and this is just one. Please be patient. Thank you for your forums time.

Date: May 17, 2008

Was this car a no sale on Ebay last year? If so it looked very nice and a bargain to boot.

Date: Sep 4, 2012

Just picked up mine from a long time friend for $5000. Mostly apart with engine rebuilt and new suspension and brake bits.

has spare diff and half shafts. I would think these would bring at least what Austin Healeys and TR3s and 4s bring!

Mine is getting Weber Carbs, gear drive starter, alternator Lucas Magneto TR4A exhaust electric fan motors narrow drive belt kit. Looking for some 10" al-fin drums for the back. smile I'm in Southern California

Art · Status: Offline

There was one in Reno, Nv for sale in Craigslist a short time back

Steve · Status: Offline

I bought the Reno one.

seanb · Status: Offline

Here in the U.S.A . i just had a guy stop by and saw my gt sitting outside and offered 20,000.00 as-is. i declined as its an heirloom. He is an owner of 15 different antique cars. he stated that out of 70 that were shipped here, im lucky to have a left hand steering model. i have a 4.3 litere cheny engine and a munse four speed sitting in my garage ready to install. he states that running with a primer coat, it is worth 30,000.00 easy. i dont have time to build this car and im also to tall to drive it, so i think im gonna throw it on ebay soon. the gt is number 180 and body is in great shape. does anyone know how many orifinal left hand steering gt's are left? thanks..

astepabove · Status: Offline

Without seeing any pictures, we would just be shooting in the dark but I think 20k-30k is the highest these cars have sold for in PERFECT condition over the last few years so if someone is offering that much for the car as is you may want to take it.

Ive been looking at the different sale prices of the "project" cars that have been listed these last 2 years and they ranged from basically 2k-8k. The few ones that were in fully restored condition ive seen listed for 23k-35k. I dont know if they actually ended up selling for those prices though.

There was a fully restored blue one in the UK that was listed for sale for about 25k and kept getting relisted on ebay for around 5-6 months. I dont know how much it ended up actually selling for.

-- Edited by astepabove on Tuesday 27th of October 2015 04:01:51 PM

seanb · Status: Offline

Thank you for your input. i thought the same on that the pice seemed high. like always though, if you take an original car and customize it with a fast engine and some nice racing tires and wheels, it will always shoot the price to that range..lol. i will post some pics sometime soon as i would like to share how my dad built rims for the rear to fit 50's. thank god i still have the spokes as well..

astepabove · Status: Offline

Actually when you customize a car you shouldnt expect to make ANY extra money due to engine/wheels etc because everyones tastes are different and whatever was installed could very well be worse then stock. Especially when it comes to a rare car where originality matters. For the Peerless I think aside from putting in the buick215 motor(which kind of could be considered a stock upgrade for the few cars fitted with them with factory help) anything else would probably turn off a potential buyer.

I've grown up in the japanese car upgrade phase of the 90s and almost no one I know that had a supra,skyline,gtr, etc ever made back the money they spent on motors/upgrades, and I am talking about the most expensive upgrades and talking about the most expensive japanese sports cars of the time.

nigel c · Status: Offline

Hi Sean,

In the UK engine transplants and customizing is seen as a downside to most old cars. The market here really only wants stock/original cars and matching numbers raises the value even more.

As far as I was aware all factory exported cars were left hand drive and from the cars I've seen/watched over the years this does seem to be the case.

I would appreciate any info you could give me with photos for the register list. Please pm me if you wish

Nigel

P&WOR UK Registrar

seanb · Status: Offline

makes sense Astepabove and Nigel...ive always have wondered why here why a perfectly antique car is worth more being altered. people here want the look but the comforts of the new cars and speed as well. i dont have the original tr3 ebgine and trans for it, so im forced to install the 4.3 chevy with the muncie four speed. i guess maybe by the time i finish, i might just keep it or find a chevelle for trade..i will take some pics soon and post them to you Nigel..thanks guys for your input..much appreciated...

-- Edited by seanb on Wednesday 4th of November 2015 07:49:03 AM

-- Edited by seanb on Thursday 5th of November 2015 02:34:24 AM

nigel c · Status: Offline

I was interested in a GT6 on eBay the other day as it wasn't moving very quickly. When I delved into it a bit more I found it had an MX5 engine (I think) fitted and didn't make £2100

If it was stock it would have made treble that!