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Post Info TOPIC: Peerless Prices.
Jon Nolan

Date:
Peerless Prices.



Bearing in mind that a Peerless/Warwick in outstanding condition is valued by some magazine guides at as little as 7000, do you think we should (as a register) be advising people to command a higher figure. My worry is that if the cars become too cheep they become unviable to restore or are simply left to rot, as they are not taken seriously. What is your opinion on this matter ?



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Joe Spiro

Date:

Hi Jon


I like the new website
Encouraging a price increase is definitely worthwhile if it will persuade more people to restore the cars.  At current prices the cars are definitely good value. 
My insurance agreed value is currently only 3k which I believe is too low.  What do you think is a sensible value for a condition 2 Warwick?


Joe 1961 Warwick GT.



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Jon

Date:


Having seen your car Joe, I'm astounded at the agreed value price ! Not a penny under 5,500 would be more like it and with a bit of tidying here and there I would say you should be adding another 1000. Who's your insurance with ? I would recommend the TR scheme through County Mutual (Ex Flint and Co) at least they have a realistic idea about insurance values for P&Ws. They have a very good re-instatement option where they pay out 25% over the insured value if you have to re-build it.



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Joe Spiro

Date:

 Thanks Jon


The insurance is due soon so I will up the agreed value at that time.
What value has anyone else set there agreed value at??


Joe


 



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nigel c

Date:

aaar ha life has sprung in to yuor new web forum jon. funny how its all related to money.


i have insured my phase 1 for 12000...yes how rediculuos.


Not when youve been a bloomin hermit for ten years rebuilding the thing. Alan House (registrar retired) and I talked abou the previous figures on P&Ws10/12 years ago.


A good shake up is needed.


The key to our success is good finish of restorations....I know mine is "over the top" but it holds its head up with the exotic at car meetings etc. For instance I went to the Ace Cafe in the summer, great night, they parked me next to a Shortwheel based 250 GTO of which the owner got straight out and talked to me about MY car not his and came back 3 times over the evening to show other people the Peerless. I was flattered and surprised, but he said it looked ever bit as good as his..... In addition, how much difference was there in the valuation of these two cars?


Come on lets get these cars valued right. I for one wont be selling so Im not in it for the profit, but they cant go for TR spares any more!


 



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Joe Spiro

Date:

 Hi Nigel


12k is a fair amount of cash but your car is absolutely gorgeous and must have cost more than that to restore to that level. 
Surely the prices will be dictated by supply and demand?  Are there more buyers than cars at the moment?


Joe


 



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Jon Nolan

Date:


There's usually more people looking than selling that I know of, and I probably know most of the sellers and comparatively few of the lookers (if that makes any sense !). What I'm trying to say is that I think there is a sellers market. I agree to an extent (with Nigel) that standard of finish is quite low on many of the cars in the club (especially mine !!) and this will have an effect on peoples general perception of P&Ws, but the last thing we want is a club of overwhelmingly boring concours types that dare not really use the cars. I guess its about balance and gentle manipulation of prices over several years. One thing I will say is that as a club, our cars see a lot of daily use, which is more than can be said of many other clubs. A good comparison is the Gordon Keeble Register, the cars are fibreglass and have been around for forty years just like Peerlesses, but how many tatty ones do you see ? (I've never seen one!). However GKs command huge sale prices and without being unkind to either club I think a different kind of person owns a GK. (I'll probably regret saying that ! can I say now that it's not meant to be derogatory in any way !)



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nigel c

Date:

I think that the GK's are different in that they have been in the majority own from new, were as P&W's were bought and sold like boiled sweets!


I agree with Jon, softly softly catchy monkey.
In addition, if the prices rise do the owners change? I for one find that in general the owners are the down to earth, friendly type. (Shame about the registrar though!)


I can edit these postings you know ! (Registrar) It could be bad for you Cluley !


 


 



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nigel c

Date:

Big brother?


Alternatively, small rotund type brother.


 



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Concerned Party

Date:

Insults at the bar only please !



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Klaus

Date:

Hello all


Just for your information Ive mailed  3-4Years ago to Classic and Sportscar and was telling these guys that the value of Peerless cars are to less in my opinion. (it was max 6k)


In  case you will update to 12k for perfect cars Im full aggree with you.


Klaus


 



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Richard Dorrell

Date:

Yes, Peerless/Warwick prices are too low.


I was delighted to sell "Peter-the-V8-Peerless" last year for what I reckoned was a sensible 2700. I was asking 3000, and had one offer of 1500.


Many of you will know that Peter was very scruffy, but he had a new MoT, and although radically modified (Rover V8 engine, TR7 5-speed gearbox, Rover P6V8 diff) he was every bit a Peerless, and well known in the TR Register. He also went like something off a shovel.....


Only 12000 for your car Nigel?? I'd add at least another 3k.



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Mike Ramsay-Fraser

Date:

Interesting subject! As the owner of (amongst other things) my Phase 1, a Scimitar SE5a, a Glibern Invader Mk3 and a former owner of a Rochdale GT I would suggest that the low valuations of these cars are possibly something to do with the construction method rather than the car (with the notable exception of the GK). The great unwashed still seem to think that my Scimitar is some sort of kit car and the mindset that glassfibre = kit car is still pretty prevalent, even amongst enthusiasts. This debate has been ongoing amonst Scimitar owners for some time now. Currently, condition 1 cars are availabe for as little as 3k and, as with the Peerless, this makes full restorations a labour of love rather than a commercial venture. I'm not suggesting that we spend hours in the garage for a financial return, but it would be nice to have recognition of the effort and cost expended.


My feeling is that, unless it is some form of exotica, glassfibre bodied cars will never reach the same values as their contemporary steel bodied rivals and the 'parts bin' approach of most manufacturers did little to help. A chrome bumpered MGB GT is valued far higher than a Scimitar SE5a despite (IMHO) the latter being a far superior car. Of course, having a tatty car, will do nothing to help the percieved value of the marque, but we all know how easy it is to keep a grp car on the road when a steel bodied car would be falling to pieces.


The only answer is to keep talking the cars up and keep them looking good but I think there will always be some stigma attached to most grp cars that will be impossible to shake.



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William

Date:

Hi Mike,
Can you give me anymore info on the Rochdale GT you had? My I ask why did you sell it?
Thanks William

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Dave Gapp

Date:

don't know what they are worth, but i just paid only 150 pound for a shell, with crated up interior, it has never been registered with dvla, and still has reciept from peerless car sales co, which states the car to be a a knockdown body assembly, at discresion of the principal liquidator, now all i need is some tr3, bits.


i can't wait for the day when, its the tr3s, which are being broken for the peerless rebuilder



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Jon Nolan

Date:

Many Thanks Dave,


If you have any other details I would love to follow this up and perhaps write it up in the Magazine. Please contact me from the Peerless Contact page and if we live near each other perhaps I could pop over some time and have a look.


Welcome to the club, all I need is a commission number ..............



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nigel c

Date:

Dave we demand more info!!

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Mike R-F

Date:

quote:

Originally posted by: William

"Hi Mike, Can you give me anymore info on the Rochdale GT you had? My I ask why did you sell it? Thanks William"


Hi William, mail me off site om michaelramsayfraser@tiscali.co.uk & I'll give you all the gorey details.


Mike



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Tony Joslin

Date:

quote:

Originally posted by: Jon Nolan

"Many Thanks Dave, If you have any other details I would love to follow this up and perhaps write it up in the Magazine. Please contact me from the Peerless Contact page and if we live near each other perhaps I could pop over some time and have a look. Welcome to the club, all I need is a commission number .............."


       Hi Guys


      There i was finking that maybe my peerless was possably the last registed in 1965 (c )


       After 14+ years progess is being made!


      Tony   



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Tony Joslin

Date:

Hi just a note to say Perrless on e bay sold for 3402.95 TJ

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Registrar

Date:

If you mean HFL 68 I think thats far too cheep it looked very reasonable from the photos.


I'll try to track the new owner.


 


Jon



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Rich

Date:

I am currently in negotiations to acquire a Phase 1 Peerless GT in the U.S. for a price that is more, by almost 50%, than what you suggest is the top price for a Peerless in the UK. Call me a fool, but when I consider the alternatives...a TR3, Lotus Elise or AC Aceca from the same period...the price is still a bargain in my mind.

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Jonathan Hill

Date:

There are two Peerless GT's for sale in the USA one for $31,000 and one for$16,900


 






$ 31,000
1959 Peerless GT
Derby, CT

PEERLESS: 1959 GT, excellent original condition, runs very well in VSCCA type racing, BRG exterior with gray leather interior, TR drivetrain, independent rear, $31,000. Paul Lane, 203-305-8966, CT; www.ctsportscars.com



Category: Racing & High-Performance

Date Posted: 10/20/04





$ 16,900
1959 Peerless GT
Samammish, WA

1959 Peerless GT, serial #00053, fiberglass roll bar, TR3 power, fuel cell, wire wheels, DeDion differential IRS, would make a great vintage racer, new tires, brakes, driveline, overdrive, $16,900, (car in Seattle). Glenn Jewett, 760-219-1128, CA.



Category: Collector

Date Posted: 10/20/04



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martin

Date:

I understand that only one peerless is in the usa v8 powered


I just came across one with a 427 cu. in ford sideoiler engine.



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Nick Copeland

Date:

Jon I agree entirely with you on P/W prices.  Taking into account marque racing pedigree and rarity, they should be right up there with the early TRs in my opinion.  We paid a very 'sensible' price for our Phase 2 which had been rebuilt on a new chassis, when a TR3 in similar condition would have been at least half as much again.  Picking up on other posts here, I too would have said Nigel's car would be cheap at 12k.


I was also interested in what you said about GKs (I've got a slightly tired one of those too).  If you compare GK prices with their natural competitors (DB4/5, Ferrari 330, Facel Vega etc) then they are still noticeably cheaper.  I think this is the same effect that we have with P/W.


Despite the shared history and design similarities, the GK is very different to drive.  Of course it's devastatingly fast in a straight line, but it feels much softer and less sporting than the Peerless - much more of a GT for long distance trips (if you can afford the petrol!).  Mine was bought as a project and was surprisingly cheap.  An engine rebuild and lots of other work later, it will soon be up for sale.  It will be interesting to see what it sells for ...


Nick



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Bob Wadman

Date:

I owned a 1959 Peerless back in 1963-64.  I wish I would have kept it.  I'm restoring old Jaguars now, but I would like to find a Peerless to add to my collection.  I'm willing to trade a mechanically new Mark II (up or down) or purchase a Peerless.  Bob Wadman

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nigel c

Date:

Hi Bob,


good to hear from you, can you remember the reg of your car...it may still be around?


We already have a member that owns Jag's and peerlesses...after a few beers with use he's seen the light and has shelved the Jag resto's!


keep intouch.



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nigel c

Date:

I notice with interest that there has been over 1000 people look at just this one item....a very interesting item P&W prices


Is this the most controversial thread, are they "out siders" interested purely in the values and not the cars.


can you find out from the stats Jon:confused



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Registrar

Date:

Hi Nige,


I know what ya mean, I guess people see them either racing or on the road (think to themselves I wouldn't mind one of those) and some of them then do a search on the web just out of curiosity to see if they could afford one. I guess it would be the first thing you want to know if you were thinking of buying one.  Only once you'd bought one would you be interested in the anorak stuff ! Lets face it, most people are just dreaming.



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FF

Date:

Well, whatever the reason, they are still coming in to have a look, and that can't be bad.


I'd be very pleased if the cars started having a value that reflects the amount of effort it takes to save one, but I guess this will be some time coming.


If we all keep up the good work, the website, the racing, the "club chassis" then things are bound to improve.


FF



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